Friday, July 29, 2005

Guess Who's Back Guess Who's Back Guess Who's Back....

Ok it's just me. But it's been a while hey.

So I was thinking:

- What would happen if to be in the All Blacks you had to have white (Pakeha, NZ European, whatever you want to call it) in you?

- What if to go in Miss New Zealand you had to have white in you?

- What if to get a particular scholarship for Uni you had to have white in you?

Would people be upset? Would there be any objection?

19 comments:

Karen said...

Fabulous questions, Jo? This is my problem with some things at the moment - so much of what I see happening around me is done based upon your ethnicity etc and yet we are meant to have equal opportunity and not be prejudiced by our colour, race, religion, sex etc. Unfortunately NZ operates on its own set of rules and there is probably not alot we can do about it! But if the situations you have stated did arise there would be a huge outcry I am sure. However people look at you sideways if you even bring it up nowdays. Thanks for coming back Jo, I have missed your blogging.

andrew brown said...

what do you mean by "have white in you"?

Anonymous said...

I think she outlines it pretty clearly in the first part about to be an All Llack.

- What would happen if to be in the All Blacks you had to have white (Pakeha, NZ European, whatever you want to call it) in you?

Anonymous said...

All Black even :p

andrew brown said...

what i mean is, there is NO maori in this country without white in them, so is she referring to immigrants? most islanders also have white in them. i would say only a tiny majority of this countrys populations doesn't have white in them. on the other hand, not a massive percentage of this populations is ONLY white anyway. thats what I don't get.

Jo said...

What I am referring to is that if you want to be in the NZ Maori rugby team you have to have maori in you, to be in Miss NZ Maori you have to have maori in you and to get some of the scholarships at uni you have to have maori in you.

I'm just wondering if that is reverse racism? I'm not against those things. I think it's cool that they are proud of where they are from.

Andrew said...

Goodness me, having to have some "white" in you to be an All Black, that would be racist!

What I can't understand is that some of the "Maoris" in the Maori all Blacks, ie Tony Brown, and Paul Tito, are whiter than some people with no Maori in them.

Maybe to be in the Maori All Blacks you just need a flat nose??
LOL

andrew brown said...

i actually came in here to make the comment jo just made about the Maori team and etc.

it is reverse racism, just like how sexism against women isn't ok but it is when it's agaisnt men.......

for whatever reason the Maori have been bought up to believe (as in, its part of their culture) that they deserve something that other people don't, that they have been ripped off in some way. if we objected we'd be called racist. you can't win because they'll argue till the cows come home about hows its ok to have a maori team but not a white team.

pisses me off. i'm getting more and more racist in the fact that as i get older i get more cynical, but it's clear that it just isn't fair. why should it be easier for maori to get a job in the police over anybody else? there are lots of situations like that.

trying to correct "wrongs" off the past by doing these kinds of things isn't the way.

btw, i'm thinking of making a blog but putting a lot of people as editors of it (you can do that you know) would anyone here be interested in that? like being an editor?

Andrew said...

Reverse Racism doesn't exist. Racism is Racism whatever way you look at it.


Hey Andrew re Blogging for All. Tried it, doesn't really work because people who have their own blogs prefer to post on their own.

andrew brown said...

i think maybe the term isn't 'reverse racism' but 'one-way racism' where it's ok to be racist in one direction but not the other. it's ALWAYS ok to be racist against white people

Jo said...

This is getting confusing with the 2 andrew bs! I think you are both right but both wrong.

Brown: it's not always ok to be racist to white people. it may just sometimes appear that way. But you are right in that its maybe not reverse but rather one-way.

Busch: Racism is always racism. This is true but sometimes there is a loop hole. The Human Rights Act says if a minority is underrepresented in an area they can get special treatment to raise that. So it may appear to be racist but its not actually.

And I know I may have just made my blog look pointless but I haven't. Yes it's important to give minorities support but when does it stop?

andrew brown said...

when I wrote that it's okay to be racist to white people, I didn't mean that it was actually ok to do, just that it's okay in societies eyes, and most white people actually don't care. not that it makes it better than other racism

"The Human Rights Act says if a minority is underrepresented in an area they can get special treatment to raise that. So it may appear to be racist but its not actually."

well, was apartheid not racism because it was part of a law? what is a minority being underrepresented mean anyway? does that mean we have to have x% of maoris in parliment because we have x% of maori in population? what ever happened to hard work and people getting what they deserve because of what they do. yeah you could argue that maybe maori have it "harder" and are under-privilegded, but personally i don't buy into that crap

safety said...

italian soccer teams, irish softball, hungarian soccer, catholic sports, polish basketball, chinese basketball, muslim communities, greek soccer, samoan sports, tongan sports, i could go on. this is how it is in wellington. cultural diversity is to be encouraged and fostered not judged as something we should not support. when maori play sport together, they play with their cultural focus. it doesn't mean we don't want to play with you. we just like to be among our own sometimes. i am a new christian who reads your posts often. for the first time your effect on me has been saddening not uplifting as it usually is. where does this attitude of sitting in judgement come from? where does this intolerance come from? not God. God does not behave in this manner. judge not less you be judged by the same measure. treat others as you would be treated.

Jo said...

I'm not judging anyone. I said in my last comment that it's important to support minorities. I'm not bothered at all by specified events (rugby teams etc). What I was saying in my blog is that why is it that it's ok to have a specified event unless that specific is "white"? Why is "white" seen so often as racist?

You quote scripture at me but you are actually reiterating my comments. Treat me as you want to be treated. You want to have a specified team etc so if I wanted you should let me. But does this only apply if it's any colour but white? What if I just "wanted to be among my own" and my own happened to be white? Let me point out now that I don't view myself as "white". I view myself as "New Zealander" or "Kiwi" but you wouldn't have got my point if I'd said that.

I didn't mean to sadden you. But maybe it needed to be done. What I blogged about is not the be all and end all to me but I think that you needed to feel what I feel sometimes as a New Zealander that isn't part Maori.

safety said...

i aknowledge how you feel. we have dealt with it for 200 years in this land. i understand what you say. never feel you should apologise for what you are. that would be terrible [i'm not suggesting you did]. just, accept. we [maori] are not the same, just as you are not the same. from where i stand, people of all ethnicities do the same thing. they like to spend time with their own [family, hapu or iwi]. it is uplifting to be well understood. then you go back out there and live with others and that is good too. the so called advantages we get, have never manifested in my life. i don't see it as an advantage to be dependant on the system. those things are the devices of power cultures that are used to stop indigenous cultures from gaining self-esteem and independance. as for rugby teams etc. it would be a shame to stop the ethnic sporting teams in this country. sometime, you could watch the guys talking about the maori team. their eyes light up with enthusiasm. they talk about the cultural aspect of being a part of the team. their self-esteem rises by the fact that they have been selected for the team that represents the things that they hold dear. that represents their culture on the world stage. they do not wish to deny that opportunity for anyone else. there was a time when we could not represent nz in south africa. because we are not pakeha. don't fear them, enjoy them. if you want one, do it. see what will happen. i think you might be surprised. i did not mean you were judging. there are some other judgemental comments. i stand by what i said. treat others as you would be treated. let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. isn't it great that we can speak openly without fear in our country? i think that is more to the point.

Elizabeth said...

Hey Joey WELCOME BACK ~ and, ummmm, we have Brown in us haven't we???? After a manner of speaking like!

I like Andrew's comment that there is no such thing as reverse racism.

andrew brown said...

I was thinking. Lets say we tried to make a club that could only have people that had "white" in them. Almost everybody has white in them these days. Every single Maori in the country does. We could try a whites-only club but it wouldn't actually be possible

Jo said...

You missed my point andrew. I wasn't saying we should actually do it! That would be ridiculous and unnecessary. I was just saying what if.

andrew brown said...

i was making another point. i was saying that if we wanted to (i don't and don't assume you do) that we couldn't, unlike others who could.